FatFreek 2005

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Posts by FatFreek 2005

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  11

  Kingdom Hall construction -- Counting time and reporting travel, meals, and lodging expenses

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have two questions.

  1. if you work on kingdom hall construction, are you allowed to count your time in lieu of field service?

  an old thread here indicated that if you are pioneer, you can count your time.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hi DarkSpilver and all. Thanks so much for the research and input. I've learned a lot.

  Len
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  22

  Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  putting it simply, kingdom halls are no longer the property of a local group of the folks that paid for and constructed it.

  the lender, the watchtower society, now says that once a mortgage is satisfied, that congregation must then declare a resolution which says it will continue to make payments, usually equal to the amount they were paying on the mortgage.

  and they must do so indefinitely.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Blondie: I really believe that slowly the change in collecting monies from the rank and file in 1990 for literature/magazines, the food program at assemblies/conventions to evade the IRS in the US, has backfired on the WTS....cash flow has dried up in a way they did not anticipate.

  That, and we mustn't forget litigation expense, multi-million dollar settlements toward sexual abuse case because of WTS policies.

  With Watchtower, it's now all about image -- facial hair (which may be changing) standards, frowned upon tight fitting trousers on men -- dictated dress code while at assemblies even when away from the convention center, dress code when visiting Bethel, etc., etc.

  As to Kingdom Halls I remember the mid 50s when out hall was just that -- a 2nd floor rectangular room above an auto insurance office that was on the 1st floor. My boy scout troop (before I got baptized) had better looking accommodations.

  Nowadays and for many years, Kingdom Halls have been built (thanks to funding from the local flocks) on main thoroughfares, the upscale design normally selected from 3 different plans. Yes, the designs show windows in them but I suspect the elders can opt out on them.

  Len
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  11

  Kingdom Hall construction -- Counting time and reporting travel, meals, and lodging expenses

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have two questions.

  1. if you work on kingdom hall construction, are you allowed to count your time in lieu of field service?

  an old thread here indicated that if you are pioneer, you can count your time.

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  FatFreek 2005

  I have two questions.

  1. If you work on KIngdom Hall construction, are you allowed to count your time in lieu of field service? An old thread here indicated that if you are pioneer, you can count your time. If you are an ordinary publisher, you can't. Can someone verify this?

  2. Are you able to deduct your expenses -- travel, meals, lodging -- on your tax return (that is, if you are able to itemize) as part of your religious contributions?

  Len
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  22

  Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  putting it simply, kingdom halls are no longer the property of a local group of the folks that paid for and constructed it.

  the lender, the watchtower society, now says that once a mortgage is satisfied, that congregation must then declare a resolution which says it will continue to make payments, usually equal to the amount they were paying on the mortgage.

  and they must do so indefinitely.

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  FatFreek 2005

  This makes even more sense when you merge it with the “hurdle number” thesis our JeffT offered at the topic, “WhichKingdom Hall Should They Sell? How Does The Governing Body Decide?”. Jeff speculates that “the only remaining question is how quickly they'll dump the losers.”

  Len
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  22

  Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  putting it simply, kingdom halls are no longer the property of a local group of the folks that paid for and constructed it.

  the lender, the watchtower society, now says that once a mortgage is satisfied, that congregation must then declare a resolution which says it will continue to make payments, usually equal to the amount they were paying on the mortgage.

  and they must do so indefinitely.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Putting it simply, Kingdom Halls are no longer the property of a local group of the folks that paid for and constructed it. The lender, the Watchtower Society, now says that once a mortgage is satisfied, that congregation must then declare a resolution which says it will continue to make payments, usually equal to the amount they were paying on the mortgage. And they must do so indefinitely.

  Imagine if you bought a home and the bank announced that you must continue to make your payment even after the home is paid for? Then one day, the bank informs you that your home isn’t generating enough profit, that they’re going to sell your home and they recommend that you move in with one of your neighbors – perhaps in a neighborhood across town. Oh, and give your home (oops, we mean our home) that coat of paint and new set roof shingles you’d already been planning to do before you go.

  Effectively, this may make Watchtower one of the largest landlords on this planet. Landlord, you say? Since2014, the answer is yes.

  Unlike other landlords, however, they do not dictate the amount of rent. The renters, the local members of the congregation, announce each year how much rent they can afford. Compassionate and empathetic you say? Well, that depends.

  Watchtower recently admonished the flock, “We can show faith by following direction if we're asked to move to another kingdom hall for better use of dedicated Christian funds".

  A congregation’s occupancy, therefore, is conditional. The flock must come to the realization that Watchtower is now poised in evaluating the keeping or disposing of properties such as Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls.

  And when it comes to disposing of a Kingdom Hall, if it’s a modern one in a desirable location then it can turn a good profit. How’s that? Well, it’s no secret that Kingdom and Assembly Halls are built with quality materials and free labor. When you couple the Hall’s material cost (much of it donated or highly discounted) with labor cost (free) the value of that project becomes virtually double in comparison with Watchtower’s out of pocket expense. Profit is relatively easy with this kind of equation.

  It’s not like trying to dispose of, say, some church cathedral with its spires and steeples and stained glass. By design, Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls are, in essence, commodities. A modern Kingdom Hall can readily be turned into a set of offices for health or legal professionals while an Assembly Hall can be turned into – you guessed it -- a convention center.

  As long as Watchtower has followers that are willing to don their hard hats, foot their own costs of trekking to and from distant cities while paying for their own meals, lodging, and filling their ride’s fuel tanks – WT is plenty willing to dig into their deep pockets to foot the materials bill.

  So, yes, it depends. If any Kingdom or Assembly Hall can’t hack a suitable monthly payment to Watchtower, that Hall goes up for sale at a good profit (ROI). Simply spread those cheapskate families around to another nearby Hall, one that shows more financial appreciation. That’ll teach the tightwads a lesson.
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  76

  Visit From Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  had two lovely jws (stephen and ruth) visit this morning.

  this was our second study in the last 2 weeks.

  they first knocked on my door (bell is out) 3 weeks ago and i shared my testimony and we arranged to meet last tuesday which we did.. our first study went like this:.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Vanderhoven7: " I pulled out an old 1995 AWAKE...and immediately he asked when was that written? I said 1995. He waved his arm and said throw it away. We don't believe that (what) anymore. . . . So I pulled out some of their literature which he tried to discourage me from reading by asking for a date and saying that's old teaching...before even hearing a word. You can throw that out...(more throw arm waving)"

  Listener: "This is interesting Vanderhoven. The JWs aren't in the least bothered about earlier teachings but I didn't realise that they are only accepting as far back as what is currently online, which is to the year 2000."
  

  Denying incriminating statements from older publications sounds to them like a good escape mechanism but as a recent president of the U.S. once said, "That old dog won't hunt".
  

  They simply can't have it both ways. If they wish to quote their older publications to back up one of their arguments they do it without batting an eye.
  

  In a recent Watchtower (2015) they referred all the way back to an issue of September 15, 1950 to restate definitions (type and antitype) they had taught at that time. That's some 65 years ago.
  

  Other Watchtower literature has no problem referring to even older Zion's Watch Tower (ZWT, the predecessor to The Watchtower) magazines when it suits their purpose. A case in point, among many, is from a recent Watchtower magazine: "One of the reasons why Zion’s Watch Tower was first published in July 1879 was to defend the Bible teaching of the ransom. Its pages provided "food at the proper time," for in the late 1800’s, a growing number of professed Christians began to question how Jesus’ death could be a ransom for our sins." The Watchtower 2010, 8/15 p. 12 par. 2.

  That ZWT reference reasonably implies that there is no statute of limitations for "food at the proper time". And it is only one of some 1,507 references to the older (early part of the 20th century) "Zion's Watch Tower" within its modern literature since 1950. It's revealing that WT has no qualms about using the early literature when it reinforces what it wants its readers to believe.

  Len
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  10

  JW Baptism

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://abc7.com/religion/video-kid-cant-wait-to-be-baptized-/1500814/.

  ok folks not a jw.lol but it would add some excitement at the assembly..

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  FatFreek 2005

  That is funny.

  I can't wait for expressions from JWs, faulting Christendom baptisms of such young children. Yet Watchtower yearbooks have records of at least 2 such children on different occasions, each aged 6, getting baptized.

  Len
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  21

  60th Anniversary today - I was baptized 9-01-56

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  60th anniversary – i was baptized 9-1-56 .

  my parents weren’t witnesses at the time, but my witness uncle studied with my brother and i. i think the only reason my parents let him was because my brother was having mental issues and were hoping it would help him.

  my father surprised me a few years later, started studying and was baptized in 1961, later appointed an elder.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Yes, Stuck, it was 1967 when the book "Your word is a lamp to my feet" was published. This book, not for viewing by the public, posed 80 questions to each baptismal candidate.

  For a link to a discussion about this book and the actual scan for your own free copy go as follows:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/124726/your-word-lamp-my-foot-pdf
  

  We can once again thank our friend Atlantis for his huge generosity, his time and resources.

  Len
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  21

  60th Anniversary today - I was baptized 9-01-56

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  60th anniversary – i was baptized 9-1-56 .

  my parents weren’t witnesses at the time, but my witness uncle studied with my brother and i. i think the only reason my parents let him was because my brother was having mental issues and were hoping it would help him.

  my father surprised me a few years later, started studying and was baptized in 1961, later appointed an elder.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hi Bonnie,

  Anyway, I need to figure out how to read your private message.

  Simply click on the envelope at or near the top of the page next to your avatar. The next page opens and my message header is probably the topmost one. Click on it and it should open.

  Hey, Stuck In the Middle!. Isn't it amazing that there are at least 3 of us, on this very thread, that were baptized within 3 months of each other in that year 1955? Wouldn't it be great if the 3 of us could share our war stories? Then, again, this forum is a wonderful avenue to do such things.

  Len Miller

  Camden, AR, USA

  ps: drop in on me and wife Judy and we'll break cornbread together along with a plate of purple hull peas.

  Len Miller
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  21

  60th Anniversary today - I was baptized 9-01-56

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  60th anniversary – i was baptized 9-1-56 .

  my parents weren’t witnesses at the time, but my witness uncle studied with my brother and i. i think the only reason my parents let him was because my brother was having mental issues and were hoping it would help him.

  my father surprised me a few years later, started studying and was baptized in 1961, later appointed an elder.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hi Bonnie,

  I was astounded to learn that you were baptized within days of my own dunking. I just looked it up, the date I mean. It was the first Saturday of November, the 3rd. My 16th birthday would be on the 7th. I was still 15 years old and remember that it was an indoor pool. The venue was Westerly, R.I., and it was a circuit assembly. I believe it was bro Edward Dunlap, the District Overseer, who gave the Sunday public address.

  Look him up, it'll only take a few seconds. A prominent brother, giving some 70 years of his life before getting out of Watchtower in the 1980 Bethel purge.

  Randy Watters, in Bethel at the time, recalls what shocked everyone there.

  "I remember the day Dunlap was going to be DFed (or at least announced as such).

  I was at my table in the dining room at 124. I was literally shaking, and as a table head that was unnerving to me. I wondered if anyone else knew what I felt. My heart was pounding like a drum. My pulse could be seen in my arm. I was so paranoid I thought I was gong to pass out. I looked around, but everyone was preoccupied with the announcement. I don't even remember who the jackass GB member was who read it off. People were weeping, it was surreal. Never before in 5 years of Bethel had I seen this.

  
  Cabeen had told me the night before that they were going to read off his DFing. So I knew it would be big. After that it was really hard for me to go to breakfast, as I couldn't eat. What was fun and clever, being Martin Luther at the Wittenburg door, was suddenly real life, and people were getting "killed." I wanted out."

  Your getting out with Clyde together is remarkable -- and wonderful. I got out in 1977 so it'll be 40 years at the early part of next year for me.

  ps: I need to share something with you, but privately. You'll see why when you read my private message.

  Len Miller

  (later edit: What a dunce -- me, that is. I just noticed that you were baptized in September. Sorry for the confusion.)